發文作者:kahoo | 二月 22, 2008

程翔表示從沒做間諜: 仍堅守一生信念


Responses

  1. All who have not pleaded guilty, will keep saying they are innocent. It is up to everyone’s liberty to choose to believe justice was served or the convicted was innocent.

  2. 獨孤求丙 // February 22, 2008 at 1:24 am “Omar Khadr had been working as an Al-Qaeda operative…it is quite obvious that, due to nothing but sheer luck, it wasn’t him who threw that grenade …
    The difference between 程翔 and Omar Khadr is that one was tried in an ironically-named “Chinese justice system” where just judgment is a rarity…In democratic jurisdictions like Canada and the U.S., not only there is hope that Omar Khadr will see light at the end of the tunnel because his case will be tried before the public, this chap may even turn around and file a counter-suit to try to pocket millions of dollars of compensations from the taxpayers – although you and I both know that he does not deserve even a penny of payout from us due to his background in supporting Al-Qaeda’s fight against the allies.
    … these evil regimes."

    This sounds like a speech from President Bush🙂
    If we look at the current 10 years events, if “evil regimes" means invasion, get a lot of other countries’ folks death, have a lot of protesters’ wherever the President visits, partitioned Kosovo, have their embassy demonstrated by protesters, tell me which country this is? Cuba, North Korea, Iran, China? No, USA.

    I suggest you read the current news more carefully.
    It is kind of sick to say a 15 years old boy kidnapped by US army since 2002 with NO open court, and now transferring to military court , and one has the sick heart to say he can claim millions of $? Let time judge your sick statment.
    程翔 is an adult, who lived half his live before his trouble, his has all the knowledge to make his choice to not to make trouble. I dare not say his did or not did anything wrong, as any justice in this world can miss-judge, but the fact is he is release on parole, after❤ years in prison.
    Khadr is still in prison for almost 6 years and counting!! Whatever Khadr did, me & you have no real idea, but whatever he did was between 0 -15 years old. If any bad thing his did ( I doubt), do you think he has 程翔’s knowledge to make the “right" choice?

  3. sorry, typo, who lived half his live before his trouble= who lived half his life before his trouble

  4. 有人起屎坑長大,對於屎臭早已習以為常,對人講:我一生人失足幾次,跌落屎坑冇乜大礙,越跌越鍾意屎坑。冇計,佢自己嘅決定。

  5. 忠議禮義本來就是中國人的傳統美德。忠于家庭忠于國家本來就是天經地義的事情。關公關雲長就是以忠義神勇流傳千古。程翔犯錯就應該勇于承認﹐若然沒錯就做個警惕﹐以後接觸機密或敏感人和物都要敏感的﹐事關兩岸機密是可以影響萬千人的
    生命財產。

  6. 程翔 met the press, and spoke to the public. He did not deny he had taken money from Taiwan.
    According to law of a lot of modern nations (including US, Canada, HK,..), one has to be able to explain and prove one’s income and wealth.

    One has to reflect as why a lot of people love one’s own country and can do contribution to one’s own country with success, including people in mainland China, but only 程翔 got into trouble? 劉銳紹 & 李子誦 together with 程翔 創辦《當代》雜誌, 劉銳紹 & 李子誦 have never been arrested, right?

    Sorry borrowed from wording from 見龍在田 but modified to suit:
    食得咸魚抵得渴! 愛國狂熱者有他自已的一本聖經! 政治狂熱者亦有他的自已一套!
    你可憐他的遭遇,當事人可能笑你多事!
    悲春哀秋似清高,為賦新詞強說愁!

  7. 程翔的[羅生門]

  8. 程翔: 我依家既身份係假釋,類似香港守行為,如果行為不當,分分鐘會再出事.

  9. 又愛又恨:黑白不分

    多謝引用!深感榮幸!

    但你說: [程翔 met the press, and spoke to the public. He did not deny he had taken money from (Taiwan).] from Taiwan 有誤導之嫌!!即指程翔沒有否認曾向台灣官方收取款項??程翔表示,程翔在與傳媒一小時聚會稱:[他從沒否認曾替智囊組織和智庫寫稿和收取稿費,(來源: 明報網 http://specials.mingpao.com/cfm/News.cfm?SpecialsID=51&Page=1&News=7deeca83a215002bdffe202ca211002bf7cd183e7d27003bf7d40e1b68050037&ChineseName=突獲假釋 )]
    當中[智囊組織和智庫]是否=[Taiwan];大有商榷!! 行文評論最忌[以偏慨全]! 否則是應了閣下筆名–[黑白不分].

    程翔是一名[老愛國],通常[老愛國]是極其固執,認定自已所作所為均是[愛國],出發點也是[愛國];說得涼薄一點,書生論政,自以為是;甚至乎–[我心向中明月,明月照溝渠].

    我在[程翔回家過新年]已提過:[我相信中國近年間在不同途徑,不同層次,與台灣不同階層人物作非正式接觸.
    至於那些可以擺上台面,那些秘而不宣;那些可以做不可說,那些可以說不可做,非局內可清楚明白!
    搭橋鋪路非人人可做得到,小心地雷!]

  10. Sorry :
    實 –[我心向明月,明月照溝渠].

  11. 又愛又恨:黑白不分

    續上

    再者,以[Taiwan]替代[智囊組織和智庫],不單止有[概念轉移],更甚者是[轉移視線];用上[慨念轉移]及[轉移視線],只會令閣下文章立點更脆弱,論點立腳更不足.

    正如以前有人說[我愛中國],即被冠以[媚共],[舔共];很久以前有人說[我愛台灣],即被標簽為[國民黨],如此標簽化,概括化,可嘆也!

  12. 又愛又恨:黑白不分兄:

    在評論事件時, 當然可以有立塲, 但重要的是就問題的核心去討論, 而不是找相近的事件或背境的人/物去對比

    1. 當有人批評一個國家/人士有錯誤時, 問題的核心是那個國家/人士有沒有犯所指的錯誤, 而不是有沒有其他的國家/人士犯同樣的錯誤. 即使有別的國/人曾做了同樣的事情, 那也不表示那被批評的國/人是對或那行為是可接受的. 好像當有人對中國政府就某些政策/事件作出批評時, 你每每指出其他國家, 特別是美國, 也曾做過或出現過同樣的事情, 來作辯護的理據, 從而避開不談那被批評的事本身是否錯誤.

    2. 一群背境相近的人, 不一定會有相近甚或相同的遭遇. 程翔, 劉銳紹和李子誦雖然曾一起辦雜誌, 但不能以劉李兩位從沒有被補而去推論程一定是本身有問題, 才會出事. 而你所指的成功愛國的人是那些呢? 恐怕都是對中國政府的政策/行事從不說不的人士吧! 他們真的是愛國嗎? 還是為本身利益去刷中國政府的鞋而已.

    最後, 你指出所有(我想應該是很多, 因為也有不少罪犯沒有那樣做)曾被判有罪的人, 都會堅稱是無辜的. 那是事實. 但就程翔事件, 起碼有一點不同的是, 相信他的人, 特別是香港人, 的數字, 比其他聲稱無罪的罪犯多得多. 那反映了什麼? 有兩個可能性:

    1. 那些相信程翔的人被他欺騙了. 但如他真的犯了所指的罪, 卻能欺騙了這麼多不同背境和甚至是不相識的人, 他們有些為程翔的釋放, 不單是空言, 而是作出了行動, 以香港人一般對人的冷漠來看, 程翔也真的是有他的能耐.

    2. 程翔真的沒有犯了所指的罪.

    是1 或2 , 正如你所說, 各人憑自己的智慧去作選擇吧!

  13. 【忠于國家本來就是天經地義的事情】早一百幾十年前講俾孫中山聽,佢就唔會推翻滿清,講俾毛澤東聽,佢就唔會推翻中華民國,而家同程翔講,唔通睇得起佢有能量推翻……

  14. 見龍在田
    智囊組織和智庫=某基金會是指中華歐亞基金會(Foundation on International Of Cross-strait Studies,F I C S),代理人薛某和戴某應是薛宏義及戴東清,而兩人均已離職.
    Who is in this foundation?
    1.Lin Chong-Pin, president of the Foundation on International and Cross-Strait Studies here and Taiwan’s former deputy defense minister, argues that Washington has a choice: approve the F-16 sale or prepare for the consequences of a weakened Taiwan against a formidable enemy. China has acquired new Su-27 fighters from Russia and is developing new indigenous fighters.
    2. Alexander Chieh-cheng Huang, senior vice president at the Foundation on International and Cross-strait Studies (FICS). In May 2004, he completed his decorated public service as vice chairman of the Mainland Affairs Council in the Taiwan government and returned to academia. He is now professor of strategic studies and director of American studies at Tamkang University and, concurrently, has been a senior associate in the CSIS International Security Program since 2000. What is CSIS? Center for Strategic and International Studies is a Washington, D.C.–based foreign policy think tank. Funded partially by government contracts.

    This FICS is not all for Taiwan for who? Is not owned by Taiwan, owned by who?

    好心,但做了壞事. 非故意殺人還是殺了人. Love the country but do things in a moron way, is not using adult level judgment.

  15. Cat Lover :" 2…而你所指的成功愛國的人是那些呢? 恐怕都是對中國政府的政策/行事從不說不的人士吧! 他們真的是愛國嗎? 還是為本身利益去刷中國政府的鞋而已."

    For the same course of patriotic to China, why:
    some people ended up with an avenging mind?
    some people ended up like 程翔?
    some people ended up like 林毅夫?
    林毅夫 is not possible to be “去刷中國政府的鞋". You can’t fake this, as it was 1982 while Theodor W Schulz, 1980 Noble Economic prize winner, was visiting China, Theodor noticed 林, and recommended 林 to study in US with him. 1986年林毅夫取得了芝加哥大學經濟系博士學位,博士論文《中國的農村改革:理論與實證》被舒爾茨稱讚為「新制度經濟學的經典之作」. On February 4, 2008 he was named to be the new Chief Economist and Senior Vice President of the World Bank. This is positive behavior contributing to all Chinese people.

  16. 程翔與曾德成出身相似.
    六四事件後兩人道路選擇相異,曾德成很快從六四震蕩甦醒過來,向已穩定政局的中央效忠;而當時擔任《文匯報》副總編輯的程翔追隨李子誦離職,並與多名舊同事創辦了政經雜誌《當代》,程翔任總編輯,但最後雜誌因長期虧損而停刊。
    曾德成及程翔等背景相近人士,在中共中央眼中不過是野狐禪一類,不成大器!曾德成還好,根正苗紅,緊跟中央;但程翔無黨無派,僅憑一腔熱誠,在詭變莫測的政海中,自以為是地為[愛國],為[祖國]統一大業出一分力,焉能不遭沒頂?

  17. Cat Lover :"1. 當有人批評一個國家/人士有錯誤時, 問題的核心是那個國家/人士有沒有犯所指的錯誤, 而不是有沒有其他的國家/人士犯同樣的錯誤…"
    There are options to try to make things better. Here is an analogy:
    Your grand-parent were very bad, did a lot of bad thing to the family and the house:
    1. now you hate your parents even though they have improved the family situation a lot, and keep going toward the betterment but not drastically changing in decision making. Even though you still love your family’s house & the members, you don’t live with them anymore, you always think your parents are bad, the neighbors parents are better, more freedom. While the freedom neighbor always go out to bully/hurt/kill other neighbors to make them conform to his way, you don’t care.
    2. now you are keeping an eye on what your parents are doing, shout if they are bad, and praise if they are good.
    3. now you are keeping an eye on what your parents are doing, and you also love your neighborhood, want them to do good. Your thinking is if the neighbors do bad things, your parents even if not follow suit, can do other not so good things and have excuse. So instead of blindly chasing the deeds of your parents, you try to make neighbors do better, then as least your parents have to do good in certain way. So neighbors’ bad deeds in any degree parallel to your parents, you will criticize.

  18. Free Khadr
    I cried when I’m reading this article. Pleeeeease read it.

    David M. Crane Feb 22, 2008 04:30 AM
    http://www.thestar.com/article/305813

    Have you ever looked into the eyes of a child who has no hope? I have and it will stay with me the rest of my life. I’ll bet if I looked into the eyes of a young Canadian named Omar Khadr, I’d see the same sad look of a child who has no hope.

    The child, now a young man, was 15 at the time of the alleged crime he is charged with committing, yet the facts show that he had no choice after being taken by his family from Canada to Afghanistan several years ago. The child was very young and he had little option but to go with members of his family.

    That child was Omar Khadr, a Canadian citizen. At 15 he was no more legally responsible for any crimes committed in combat than the children of Sierra Leone, which I chose not to prosecute. Omar Khadr is a victim of war.

    The charges against him should be dropped and he should be sent home where he can be rehabilitated, not punished. Defence counsel alleges he is mentally years behind his now 20 years of age, as he has been incarcerated in a detention camp since 2002. One asks where is the outrage in all of this by right-thinking people? France has called for Khadr’s release. Where is Canada?

  19. 又愛又恨:黑白不分
    與你爭辯[收取智囊組織和智庫稿費是否=收取台灣情報金錢]是沒有意思!

    正如爭辯[Omar Khadr是為聖戰殺敵準備隨時光榮犧牲的極端回教主義者,或, Omar Khadr是一個誤闖戰區的可憐未成年義工]一樣沒有意思

  20. 見龍在田,

    It a shame to say “Omar Khadr是為聖戰殺敵準備隨時光榮犧牲的極端回教主義者"

    If you care to read Toronto Star’s articles, do a Khadr search on thestar.ca, if you care. Or read this http://www.thestar.com/article/305813.

    Agree with no facts to support yourself is of course no sense at all. And to say bad words on a boy who had no control of his fate between the age of 0-15 is heartless.

  21. “Omar Khadr是為聖戰殺敵準備隨時光榮犧牲的極端回教主義者”are bad words to him? I dont think so!! I believe Omar Khadr is proud to be a 為聖戰殺敵準備隨時光榮犧牲的極端回教主義者.

  22. A person who used up more than half of the space in this thread in discussing something that is out of topic is pointless.

  23. 點解我咁耐都唔上黎留言板一次﹐但次次上親黎﹐無論係傾到去邊一頁﹐都總會又係講緊呢個"奥媽契弟"(Omar Khadr)嘅呢???? 真係拗爆頭﹗
    又愛又恨君點解總係要拎住呢一個case屎﹐當正好似金盾牌咁﹐總之人地輕輕指下大陸政府D咩唔啱﹐你就"唏哈"一聲舉個奥媽契弟出黎﹐隊埋黎話 “拿拿拿﹗美國佬點呀點﹗"﹐不如有冇第二招﹐騷埋出黎呀?
    美國佬D衰嘢﹐大家又點會唔知﹐試問又有邊個國家從來冇D痛腳臭腳? 呢度係地球﹐唔係天堂﹐點會有百份百「公義」?
    唔單止係美國佬定大陸佬﹐總之「人」就根本係唔可信嘅架啦﹐人構成嘅政府亦當然唔可信﹐但咪就係因為咁﹐所以我地唯有信「制度」囉﹗講到底﹐美國掌權大佬有D咩不公義嘅行為﹐佢總會有機會起民主制度之下被人民拉落台。之但係﹐大陸呢? 你有冇諗過﹐如果同樣"奥媽"呢單嘢﹐換轉係發生起大陸嘅政權之下﹐又會點? 分分鐘呢個小朋友已經神秘"人間蒸發"﹐係咪比人推咗去礦場做奴隸﹐定係升咗天都冇人知﹗

  24. 九里兄:
    我都係咁話,總之有人講親共產黨D嘢,一定引來一大篇歐美事例去証明中國所做D嘢好過歐美。不同政制,不同文化背景,如何可以相提並論,唉,真無癮,都係睇番場阿仙奴對曼聯好過啦!

  25. one-trick pony
    (noun)

    1. A performing animal (esp. a pony) who knows but one trick.

    2. (idiom) By extension, someone who can do one thing well but is otherwise unremarkable or inept.

  26. I think everyone may have a kid of less than 15 one time or another, and everyone knows what the father did has nothing to do with the kids.
    When Amnesty, France, scholars, all condemn Khadr should be releases, because he was framed.
    So why are we so cruel to say ”奥媽契弟”(Omar Khadr)"? Why are we so cruel to assume a 15 years old boy knows what he is doing and “是為聖戰殺敵準備隨時光榮犧牲的極端回教主義者"?

    To borrow from 獨孤求丙, “(you) folks haven’t come to (your) senses and imitate only the superficial side of the west but not the very foundation of civility."

  27. In case you are not aware, civilization began in Imperial Egypt, China, not in the West. Modern Western Laws are to term a man is innocent until court sentence, but Khadr has NO court proceeding and imprisoned for close to 6 years. Modern Western Laws are to protect the minor. Modern Western civility is to praise, to encourage, to forgive, so as to achieve improvement, not cursing and bad-wording all the time.

  28. sorry should be:
    Modern Western civility is to praise, to encourage, to forgive, and to suggest constructive/positive idea, so as to achieve improvement, not cursing and bad-wording all the time (which is so easy, I know, even a baby can do this, but to have contructive suggestion…your turn).

  29. 程翔欲言又止, 彷彿要等假釋期滿, 才可能有確實交代.

  30. 足球迷兄:
    呢個場有唔同意見發表係好事黎嘅,唔駛咁悶吖嘛,如果D大哥唔上黎,佢D對手又唔出現,咁就買少見少,記唔記以前有件水蛇春,可能覺得呢度冇乜價值,已經收咗工,冇貼野上黎好耐。我最鍾意睇人抦人架,睇人打沙包自己都亢奮埋一份,你咁鍾意足球,鍾唔鐘意睇人係球場開片?斯丹用個頭頂條意大利佬,真係歷史嘅一刻,永留世人心中。

  31. 又愛又恨:黑白不分兄:

    1. 為什麼: [林毅夫 is not possible to be “去刷中國政府的鞋”]? 林先生真的不可能向中國政府刷鞋/獻媚? 他能以一個從台灣投誠的軍人, 能得到出國留學的機會? 那真的是一個異數! 更煩請解釋一下. 況且, 林先生是否一位愛國者, 還不是你我一人所能下定論.

    2. 你舉的祖父做壞事來作例子, 對比我所指的問題核心根本是不恰當和離題. 如果有人說你的祖父做了壞事, 而你卻以那批評你祖父的人的祖父也做了壞事來反駁, 那才是相稱的比較. 而不是你所說的什麼父母如何攺善了情況, 而兒子還是在埋怨等等. 我覺得你又開始有點語無倫次了.

  32. 又愛又恨:黑白不分
    [子非魚焉知魚之樂?]
    [如人飲水冷暖自知!]
    我們如何得知15歲在加拿大出生及在極端回教主義家庭成長的埃及矞少年沒有自已的自由意志?
    不要將自已經歷投射在其他人身上!

  33. Cat Lover:

    同意. 這是類似加拿大原住民情況. 自歐洲人大批進入(侵入)了加拿大至今, 原住民就不停止地享有特權, 就像頭等公民. 毫無疑問, 這是上世代的錯. 但為什麼時至今日, 原住民還不停止地享有特權, 還是在埋怨? 這又是否對新一代的加拿大人和新移民公平麼? 我們都交稅. 原住民有責任提高自身素質, 不應被恩典資助而寵壞.

  34. 好笑的文革罪犯

    呢個版面上有只貓講程翔犯唔犯法是好靠文化大革命個時甘幾多人“覺得”佢有無罪而定。

    不如將程翔公審啦﹗你只貓幫佢寫張大字報﹐貼系的要革共產黨命ge革命群眾裡面﹐然後來個革命群眾大會﹐公審程翔﹐然後宣判佢革命無罪遭受迫害啊笨貓﹗

  35. 多謝又愛又恨:黑白不分轉述小弟句: “haven’t come to their senses and imitate only the superficial side of the west but not the very foundation of civility", 但提話中人物是中共黨員, 而並非此處網友! 但如果在下說話像 George Bush 的話, 我就一定要模仿埋佢, 側起個頭, 打斜個身, 用極輕挑嘅南部口音講才似喇! 而閣下似乎浩似中國共產主義推銷員, 對中共只 “focus on the positive", 正如 Cat Lover 君在 February 22, 2008 at 5:01 pm 所言, 卽對黨的惡行則用其他國家的惡行來維護。

    待我簡潔地回應閣下論點吧:

    1. 邊處才是 “evil regime": 中國或美國?

    可否容許我用盒子外的思維, 「大小通吃」, 兩個都係 “evil regimes" 呢? 由二次大戰開始, 美國為要堅固自己做世界一哥地位, 用世界警察姿態, 在明在暗亦在擴張自己在世界嘅影響力, 呢樣就係讀小小新聞的人亦明白的是實。 但弱肉强食, 這個道埋亦是千古不變。 如果北韓有能力的話, 南韓晨早己淪陷; 如依朗有核武器及先進軍備, 不少中東國家亦早已被「统一」。但以上兩國的分別, 看看 Guantanamo Bay 關塔那摩灣 (How appropriate a translation!) 入面的囚犯便知了: 請問有幾多個是美國公民呢? 反過來說, 如我們到中國走一轉, 又可避過解放軍的守衛, 請看看入面有幾多是只愛和平的, 而又未被審判便被關在獄中的法輪功及政見有異人仕呢? 他們亦是中國公民, 但為何不同意共產黨的一套理念, 就要關起甚至將他/她們折磨至死呢?

    2. Omar Khadr:

    如果要將多倫多出世的 “奥媽契弟”(Omar Khadr) 恢復原狀, 變回正常加國公民, 可能首先要將他名字改改….或 “奥媽契哥" (Omar Kilgore)吧, 另他可重新做人! 我見議可將他放在 CAE (Montreal 公司做 flight simulators 的) 一個 prototype 內, 再模擬撞向 WTC twin towers 處, 無辜辜坐短途飛機要向家人在手電講永別的感覺, 或英勇衝上世貿大樓救人的消房員…..

    3. Civility 與 Civilization 是截然不同的兩回事….(出出去先, 遲d返嚟再寫埋佢)

  36. Someone likes to use distractions to draw us Forum fans away from the main issue:

    程翔表示從沒做間諜: 仍堅守一生信念

    He/She has nothing to say but keep on repeating “Omar Khadr" in any topics in this Forum, and will use it for the next 50 years. He/She is lazy.

  37. A person may not have the motives to commit a crime can still commit a crime.

    Ching Cheung may not have the motives for spying, but this does not change the fact that he commits the act of spying and revealing to hostile taiwan based intelligence entities, knowingly or not.

  38. 程翔表示會堅持愛國,我好有興趣佢講嘅係(1)中華民族嘅國家,定係(2)中國共產黨獨裁統治下嘅國家,佢大半生愛(2)幾十年,經過今次事件會唔會有所改變?(其實六四係另一次,)拭目以待。

  39. 蓮姐:

    乜乜主義物物主義D政治嘢咁高深,唔啱我呢D才疏學淺嘅波牛,不過有時睇唔過眼講兩句,在言論自由大前提下,當然任何人都可以暢所欲言啦。

    程翔有沒有做間諜,只有一個人最清楚,就是他自己。

  40. 足球迷兄:
    〈間諜〉的定義是爭議之重點,中共與外界對此明顯不同,如果認同中共的標準,程翔就是中共所指的所謂間諜,所以程翔是否〈間諜〉各人心中自有判斷。

  41. Problem is 程翔 is a moron, did it without knowing it. Thus he said he did not intentionally did anything wrong such as spying. Such as reckless driving is a criminal offense. Check what is reckless driving , also include did not intentionally want to be reckless http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reckless_driving

  42. 足球迷兄:
    好多人都係識少少扮代表架咋,唔好俾佢長篇大論就嚇窒咗,其實好多人(我自己都係)係度狗噏,總之唔順超就鏟,唔駛客氣。係呢度講波經你認第二冇人係第一,一於揚長避短,講多D足球,唔係咩呀!

  43. 蓮姐:

    係呢個留言版個個都係球王比利,告魯夫,連自稱大衞碧咸都會被人話唔夠班,唔夠級數。好似程翔咁,夠有人話佢唔夠班做間諜,又有人話如果做間諜是叛國罪,應該判死刑。唉!總之各人說各話,睇唔過眼咪講兩句囉,同高手過招就冇資格啦!一於做大球場東看台觀眾啦。

  44. 足球迷兄:
    做觀眾?我以為你話著12號波衫,做後備打埋一份添,起碼都落場走幾步吖。

  45. 從網友給我/提及我的留言, 使我越來越對我的表達能力感到懷疑. 因他們所提到關於我的觀點, 都不是我所要表達, 甚至是我沒有涉及的.

    1. 行外人君給我的留言. 開始便來過強而有力的[同意]. 可惜的是, 他/她跟著說的內容, 我從沒有提過, 亦不能找到我曾有就其他話題所表達的意見, 能引申到他所說的內容和結論
    .
    2. 好笑的文革罪犯君以我說很多人相信程翔不是間諜, 令他/她覺得有如文革時採取利用群眾, 以眾口一詞便能定人罪一樣, 可以眾口一詞便能斷定程翔沒有罪. 我根本沒有這個觀點/提議. 我只是就黑白兄指出不少罪犯在被判有罪後, 仍堅持宣稱自己是無辜. 程翔也這樣做, 但起碼有一點不同的是, 相信他的人比較相信其他呼冤的刑犯多得多而已

  46. 又愛又恨:黑白不分兄:

    我對你就間諜案公開指程翔為蠢人(moron)感到有點失望. 因為這明顯反映你也認為如果他聰明一點, 便不會出事了, 即他根本不是間諜. 支持程翔的人, 不少也認為他的愛國心, 甚至所採取的行動/行為, 是愚蠢的, 但大家都尊重他那點愛國(當然與你或林毅夫等的愛國不同概念)之心, 不忍說他是愚蠢的人, 反而對他表示尊敬.

  47. 程翔的確係幾蠢,對中共愚忠,係蠢嘅表現之一。坐完監返出黎,話會堅持愛國,幾多人背後掩嘴而笑,蠢嘅表現之二。做〈特務〉俾人拉,坐三年,冇厘醒目,蠢嘅表現之三,睇吓James Bond吖,風流瀟洒,送抱投懷,咁先至係特務吖嘛,總之程翔同聰明扯唔上關係。

  48. 蓮姐:

    唔好卦!做12號後備仲危險,主隊白衫,客隊黑衫,場上飛沙走石,連自己都黑白不分,好容易被人暗算或殺錯良民,如果一定要落場,我寧願做球証,起碼都可以將踢茅波,打假波或故意擺烏龍而輸波嘅25仔/球隊間諜趕出場,寫份 report 去國際足協要佢終生停賽,不准假釋。

  49. 足球迷兄:
    你一定會做個好正義嘅球證,之不過執法太嚴,場波就唔好睇,鬆得滯矛躉又博懵,球證唔易做架。國際足協真係太保守,今時今日都唔肯用rewind返睇問題球,等D球證一錯到底,班友係唔係食古不化呢可?

  50. Civility 與 Civilization: 我發覺, 文化有四、五千年嘅國家, 如埃及和中國, 反而不及近二千年左右才興起的歐美國家開明, 大部份人民對人格不止不重視, 簡直時常不停踐踏的例子, 不勝投舉!

    其係我一向亦只是說程翔一案在香港或西方社會法律程序下, 程翔應該是「做間諜」罪不成立的。 因為中共應該見到程翔銀行突然多咗幾百萬(根據報導稱), 雖然証明唔到係台灣政府給予程翔做間諜的報酬, 但一句「唔信你唔係間諜喇」, 就將程翔監禁近三年之久!

    如果程翔真是「收入與財富不相符」的, 而大陸亦有此條法例定罪的, 就用此條法例控告他, 而不是間諜罪。 如果大陸沒有此條法例的, 就立刻要無罪釋放, end of story!

    如果程翔銀行存欵真是突然暴漲而他亦無法解釋的, 除做間諜外, 還有很多可能性的, 譬如:

    1) 打劫番嚟嘅
    2) 「朋友」俾做掩口費嘅
    3) 謀財害命得番嚟嘅
    4) 誠哥封嘅利是嚟嘅
    5) 及其他 money laundering 嘅黑錢

    如果有公平審判, 真相就有機會浮現。 但秘密審判, 「話你係間諜你就係啦」式嘅裁判, 就一定另人不服。

  51. To: 獨孤求丙

    誠哥封嘅利是, 可信性高些.

  52. 隱形人:

    我想亦如是。但亦有其他可能性, 例如:

    6) 喺江門新相識嘅專貪污嘅二奶, 見程翔靚仔, 私人醒嘅
    7) 喺後巷有班湖南幫打完劫之後太匆忙走人, 漏低咗俾程翔執到嘅
    8) …

    總之不可告人的巨欵可能性多多, 又怎可以監硬要質個「間諜」罪給他呢?

  53. 唔好意思, 以上個 8) 應該係 8 ), 今次輪到我俾 WordPress 出賣, 監我食死貓!

  54. If Khadr lived in China, he’s already executed and the case is closed. No chance for appeal. Minority group in China, who cares about them? Who would cry for Khadr if he’s chinese?

  55. Comparing Khadr with Ching, is like comparing Apple with Orange, meaningless! Anyone really knows his background and what he had done? Please talk to his community and find out.

  56. 足球迷:
    Have you seen birminham’s Taylor violent tackle on Arsenal’s DaSilva that broke his leg (i believe both his Tibula and Fibula are broken)? That guy should be banned for at least 1 year.

  57. Here’s the video, the pic shows DaSilva leg is clearly bend on the tackle!

  58. Khadr should be locked up in prison for life

  59. 程翔(情長),他的名字已說明一切……

    Arsenal-wenger :
    That’s totally ridiculous!!! Taylor should be banned for the rest of his life!!! How can Aresnal compete with Man U if they lost Eduardo? sigh…

  60. Arsenal-wenger 及黃毓仁 兄:

    在翻睇錄影帶多次,Taylor很明顯是要腳不要波,目的是否想 Eduardo 收檔?明眼人一睇便知,否則球證不會立即紅牌趕佢出場,既然 Taylor 想人收檔,佢都應該被英國足總收佢檔。我突有一奇想,停賽刑期最少與 Eduardo 康復期相等,這樣是否公平一點?身為阿仙奴 fans ,衷心希望他們的所有傷兵早日康復,full team 去爭餘下所有錦標,加油!加油!

  61. Isn’t it creepy? DaSilva’s goal last year in the Euro qualifying match outsed England from Euro final round, now he plays in England and this injury is probably career-ending!

  62. Arsenal-wenger 及足球迷 兄:

    睇怕Eduardo康復後也不可能像以往般在球場上左右開弓的了。像Eduardo那樣高質素球員真的可遇不可求。到得找到亦要一段時間才能跟隊友建立默契。君不見T.Henry過檔巴塞後入球率急降便知融入球隊比找好球員更難。為了杜絕這種蓄意傷人的踼法,國際足協應予以嚴懲,如該球會也應負上責任等等…但正如姣婆蓮姐話齋,國際足協固步自封,未能與時並進,才導致球員受傷屢見不鮮,賽果錯判亦比比皆是。現階段唯有希望Adebayor跟Walcott繼續生生性性,Fabregas打出超水準,那阿仙奴還有希望的!

  63. Arsenal-wenger 及黃毓仁 兄:

    唔好意思,再借這板一用與老友講波經,請諒!
    Eduardo嘅傷照阿仙奴官方網頁稱可以在今年內 full recovery,這是一個好消息,但不知需要多少時間才能與隊友配合及回復其自信心?目前阿仙奴前鋒除了Adebayor跟Walcott 外,還有荷蘭籍嘅 Robin van Persie,此子左腳凌厲,可惜剛傷愈,狀態暫時未十足,相信很快便可溶入隊中,屆時攻力便會多變化一點。
    唉!國際足協好似頑固老翁,食古不化,人家 tennis 及美式足球 都有即時翻睇錄影,遊免判錯而影响賽果啦!

  64. Arsenal-wenger 及足球迷 兄:

    一講到足球就像巴迪斯圖達入球般:真的停不了,只係講多一陣,好快好快,看倌們萬勿見怪!
    如果Eduardo能在今年內完全康服,那當然是令人振奮的消息,我還道他要提早掛靴呢!不過你說得對,Van Persie也是好波之人。期望他恢復狀態踼多幾場好波給廣大球迷吧!提起van Persie,令我想起他的同鄉Robbin(洛賓),此子技術速度兼備,是近幾年我認為最全面的球員。(阿根廷的Messi美斯將來有望更勝洛賓。)可惜荷蘭同英國一樣,雖然能人輩出,但總是與大賽擦身而過。荷蘭還算發揮正常,(前兩屆世盃輸給巴西,上屆輸給葡萄牙)輸了只好怨句欠運。可是英國踼球會時係威係勢,到踼國家隊時竟變了一擘屎,實在不明所以!
    國際足協那班「老臣子」一日不走便無法得到改革。其實柏天尼上位後已有所改善。至於為何不用高科技解决具争議性的判决,我想來想去除了方便某些人打假波之外,實想不出還有其他原因。始終賽果操控由「人」,打起假波也容易些呢!
    最後趁兩位足球字典在這留言板,可否解答小弟廿多年來的疑團?就是為何足球會有越位呢?為可不可以廢除越位制度?多謝賜教!

  65. 黃毓仁 兄:

    為何足球會有越位呢?原因是沒有越位,很多進攻隊員便會站在龍門前,等候執死雞,所以便有此規則,直至1925年才有較完善越位球例出現,1990年國際足協再修訂此球例。

  66. Even if DaSilva can fully recover, I believe he won’t be the same player again. Psychologically, he would play with hesitation. Look at Ronaldo, after his first major knee operation, he never regain his top shape, only play good football occasionally.

  67. 承蒙足球迷兄指點迷津,令小弟茅塞頓開。果然解開埋於心底的千古懸案。感激感激!足球字典機當之無愧!

  68. Bring Khadr home

    The news:
    If you care to know what happened to Khadr when he was 15, check these Toronto Star’s articles, beware the graphic can be too shocking to some:
    Part 1: The story of Guantanamo’s child
    http://www.thestar.com/article/326337
    “..DAMIEN CORSETTI was one of the interrogators… was an intimidator and he was good at it…When Corsetti saw the hole on the top of Omar’s back, he held a Coke can to the wound. “You could have fit that can of Coke in…

    Corsetti wasn’t Omar’s interrogator but made a point of talking to the teenager as often as he could..”Honestly, he seemed like a young kid who got swept up into something because of his family ties and never got the opportunity to make a choice for himself whether it was right or wrong,” Corsetti said.

    Part 2: Omar Khadr: Life as a human mop
    http://www.thestar.com/article/326574

    Bring Khadr home
    http://www.thestar.com/article/326290
    “The American Civil Liberties Union describes the tribunals as “a mockery” of justice. The United Nations, the Canadian Bar Association, Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch and many others have taken up his case. …Britain and Australia have managed to have their own citizens returned from Guantánamo. (to face due process at home)

    The book :
    “Guantánamo’s Child: The Untold Story of Omar Khadr,” by Michelle Shephard, Toronto Star journalist tobe released on Mar 24.

  69. Khadr is a terrorist, lock him up!

  70. Khadr is just like Ching Cheung, betray their country, they both should be locked up for life or even hang to death. Khadr definitely is a terrorist, people who don’t know our community, please shut up your mouth and don’t pretend you are rescuing an innocent kid!

  71. Khadr is a terrorist, 請不要又含又吹﹐亂甘講廢話

  72. black and white sucks!

  73. Idiotic losers in actions:

    Muslim // March 11, 2008 at 10:41 pm
    Khadr is a terrorist, lock him up!

    nono // March 23, 2008 at 11:44 pm
    Khadr is a terrorist, 請不要又含又吹﹐亂甘講廢話

    LMF // March 24, 2008 at 11:22 pm
    black and white sucks!

  74. who can prove Khadr is innocent? nobody yet, loser!

  75. If you love freedom, love Western Government election style, love the justice system, (all 3 of these I like them too), you must know the justice system protect the minor (Khadr is), woman, and assume everyone is INNOCENT before one is subjected to fair trial. So you can prove Khadr is NOT innocent?
    Khadr is not a soldier, a child soldier is not a soldier in International law. He is not having fair trial. Australia already got her prsion in Guantanamo back home for trail, there is no more Western country nationality prisoner, except Khadr. Why Khadr is not coming back to Canada for trial? I think there was a terrorist caught in China, who is a Canadian, but China do not recognize double nationality so once he was in China, he was arrested. This is agreeable to international law, Japan will do the same. But I think I’ve heard a lot of folks here screamed. Double standard?


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