發文作者:kahoo | 十二月 18, 2007

Delay No Mall? Delay No「貓」??

文化評論人梁文道認為,多個商業品牌或商店名,都會用一些文字的諧音,看到也不值得大驚小怪,「市面有個品牌叫FCUK啦!玩諧音只是一種噱頭」。他又覺得,青少年並不會因此而被「教壞」,「難道看到後,青少年會變得鍾意講粗口?會講多些嗎?那麼如果看到電影中有人拿槍,又會令人變得暴力?

一名審裁委員張民炳則表示,商場命名為「Delay No Mall」,並沒牴觸任何法例,但這個商場位於鬧市,而且附近學校林立,商場名字或令青少年產生聯想,「青少年一定認識這些英文字,讀起來可能覺得得意,便會拿這些字作嬉戲,這或會令他們產生錯覺,認為這是社會文化」。

精彩重溫

Part 1:  「Delay No Mall」爭論 (I)
http://torontofirstnet.com/radioplay.php?file=20071218-1730

Part 2:  「Delay No Mall」爭論 (II)
http://torontofirstnet.com/radioplay.php?file=20071218-1800

Part 3:  「Delay No Mall」爭論 (III)
http://torontofirstnet.com/radioplay.php?file=20071218-1830


Responses

  1. Objective accomplished – free advertising.

  2. How about FCUK here in Toronto?

  3. 你係識個句粗口,人地讀出黎,你聽到個諧音,先會去諗個equivalent 嘅粗口。雙重標準,delay一個英文字,解作延遲,麥之華一句就話非常粗鄙,如果佢唔係諗緊粗口,delay= swearing ,咁d鬼佬同你講 delay(verb),咁你會有乜反應?問佢做乜講粗口?如果個鬼仔個名叫 Dylan,姓係 Lee,咁佢講自己個名咪又粗鄙?

  4. Simon every time you call 麥之華’s sheep name, it sounds to me like Dai Ball Nine.

  5. 心遠地自偏
    管管管,俾機會政府樣樣管,家長式管治好嗎?

  6. Hey, how about the “Do you know me?" used by American Express a few years back? We played joke on this because it also rhyme with another 粗口.

  7. 早幾年人地毓民場 show 叫 “少理老懵" 又冇人出來講.. FCUK 咁多年又冇事… Delay No More 本身都係一個品牌.. 而家同一公司開個 Mall, 用同一個音又如何?

  8. From dictionary.com

    mall 1 (môl, māl)
    所以係可以讀"貓", as in “Mal"

  9. First of all; Free publicity, Free advertising.
    Secondly, the brain child behind this naming of the mall has low taste and is pushing the envelope of acceptance of Hong Kong people. This is not creativity, it is just some trash thinking.
    Simon, I can not agree with you; this is not creativity, this is not sub-culture of Hong Kong. This is trash.
    Even thou you can hear this slang on the street all the time as soon as you steps into the street, but when you post it on the eye-catching place, it is there for people to read all day long.
    If it is creativity, what about when they decorate the main entrance of the mall as the private; reproduction part of a female ? It is natural, healthy, everybody came out of it, what is wrong with it? Will you accept that as Creativity?
    Either you have been educated in Canada and lived here for too long, or you just want to be a sore thumb.

  10. 麥之華, we support you!

  11. 一本正经越来越不正经,为了吸引听众,节目手法极之扇情,主持人观点和言论非常偏激,所以流失了许多有品位的听众.

  12. 點樣去解讀:
    去菜館點菜問: “有乜撚手小菜?" 紳士淑女定掩耳狂奔? 究竟是字的問題還是人的問題?

  13. Simon,
    Please go back home to ask your old mother . If her answer is YES, then we have nothing to say.
    It was not creativity, it is insulting every mother, my boy!

  14. 創作無罪﹐但低級卻不能接受。

    無論"Delay no more" or “Delay no mall" , 普遍香港人都知道是粗口諧音﹐不用多作解釋。作者拿出什麼正音只是矯揉造作﹐用意越描越黑﹐引人注目。低級之至。

    不過﹐招牌拆與不拆﹐決定權就不應在政府。應讓市民自我衡量。家長管教﹐扼殺創作自由就只會養出一班不明事理只懂盲從的‘蟻民’。

  15. Kagami said it all.

    After all, I don’t think this is even acceptable by Hong Kong people as their sub-culture. Hong kong people are mostly better educated than that.

  16. 本人覺得無問題, 個名都幾得意, 絕對收到極大的宣傳效果, 一定成為大家茶餘飯後之話題, 遠至到我們的多倫多也成為熱門話題, 就算日後香港政府要把它擦掉, 這個商場已成功地宣揚到每個香港人都知, 宣傳效果已達成。
    至於有人說教壞細路, 唉! 要壞的, 怎樣都會壞, 難道一個名就會把一個乖小孩變壞小孩, 根本在香港地, 很多幾會接觸到粗口, 只要父母適當地解釋和教導便可。

  17. 這樣的商場名字,竟然能在鬧市出現,香港回歸10年後怪事特別多,這個招牌諧音,以為只會經常在球場出現,尤其是某隊輸了波。

    如果這個商場早幾十年出現,那麼小弟則不會被小學老師罰抄500句"我以後不說粗言穢語",其實當時只說一句"X居"而矣。

    這個商場招牌,對我來說是不能接受。

  18. 頭先最後個phone-in
    個女人真係不知所謂
    節目梗係要辯論
    個個得一個方向
    你就不如唔好聽啦
    去聽新聞就得啦

    我聽到佢喺度叫
    就真係uncomfortable
    丟架!!!

    最搞笑係佢大叫
    “家豪~你以前都唔係咁!!!"

  19. In UK, Pall Mall (/pæl mæl/) is a street in the City of Westminster, London. And I believe the word “mall" really sounds like “mal". Seems like no one mentioned it in the phone-in.

  20. FCUK…..哈哈哈, it’s funny!
    Delay No More, 哈哈哈哈, it’s hilarious!!
    Delay No Mall, 哈哈哈哈哈哈, it’s outrageous!!!!
    DNM, 哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈, I’m laughing my heart out!!!!!!
    Jill Cox 哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈哈, 搞笑……..

    Get the point now? Profanity, or the mockery of its expressions, is only funny up to a certain extent. When we are flooded with it every second and every minute, I don’t think anyone will in his/her right mind think it’s trendy anymore.

    In a free economic market, let the people in it dictate what they want. When an expression becomes a cliché, it’s going to make everyone puke even at the slightest thought of it!

  21. 商人在做生意賺錢之餘, 如果更能顧及社會責任, 那便更美好. 利用諧音作品牌/商埸名字, 無非想引人注意, 增加知名度, 最終目的還不是一個利字. 但是否不以粗口作諧音便不能收到這種效果呢? 其實坊間已有不少以諧音入店名的例子, 意思也不錯. 如豐依粥食(食店), 千鈞一髮(理髮店)等. 創作人多作思考和嘗試, 必能得出佳作.

    在這裏請恕我借題發揮, 批評這留言區的一位留言者的署名, 在Delay No More中, Delay後加上一個過字, 那就真的是太過份了. 會說廣府話的網友當然明白我說的意思. 不說廣府話的網友, 你們有猜疑為什麽在這中間加上一個過字呢? 是指[經過], [超過], [過去]嗎? 放在那三個英文字中, 能有一個可解釋的完整意思嗎?

  22. 毛總說﹕槍桿子出政權﹔

    鄧總說﹕實彈是檢驗真理的唯一標準。

    這樣的真理的真理﹐你們就是想不通。

    想以筆桿子出政權﹐用口水來檢驗真理﹖哈哈﹗

    正如江總所說﹕Some time……..!

  23. ai ya…

    When I first heard it, I thought it was Japanese tim.

    Delay no mall, where no is Japanese… so we have a mall of delays….

    then I remember some shirt I saw earlier on this blog… a pretty lady was wearing it, on her chest was ‘Delay no more’ (no to forget some one who used that as their pen name on this blog HOHOHO)

    Honestly, all we have to do is, hire 梁文道 to be the official spokesperson for this new mall.
    Create a gigantic poster, about the size of the old Marlboro ad near Kowloon Tong. The poster is just a very cool pose of Mr. Leung. On this poster are the following text.

    ‘梁文道日日夜夜都去Delay No Mall. 你又如何?’

    That’s creative humor!

    BTW, please stop using the words Talliban. I know to the US they are rogue, deceptive, uncooperative scum. But to their own people, they are heros. They fighting an enemy that is stealing their home land. Much like our ancestors fighting the combined forces of the eight countries. Or those that fought against the Japanese, Chinese working for the Japanese to be exact. To us, they are trouble makers, but they are not trouble makers to the a portion of the world. If you really want to use a word like that, use the word Dictatorship instead.. it is better… Actually, dictatorship describe the person who created the Talliban title in the first place, he was banning free speech from free speech…. Is it just me or is this person insane?

  24. should the copy and paste master “和諧與你一起 民主派Delay 過 no more"
    change his/her name to “和諧與你一起 民主派Delay 過 no mau" ???

    hey, 和諧與你一起 民主派Delay 過 no more: do you have any comment to copy and paste?

  25. Simon: if this is to protect HK’s sub-culture, then why don’t they use the original Chinese swearing words? (XXX lei lo xx) If the gov’t let them use the chinese words, then you can say it’s to protect the sub-culture.

  26. should the copy master “和諧與你一起 民主派Delay 過 no more" change his name to “和諧與你一起 民主派Delay 過 no mau"??

    和諧與你一起 民主派Delay 過 no more: do you have any comment to copy?

  27. Simon: this is not to protect the HK’s subculture, if this is the case, then they should use the original chinese swearing words!!

  28. Agree with Master

    個個得一個方面
    個過就唔係一本正經o既作風啦!

    佢個句
    “你變o左啦家豪!"
    笑死我!

  29. Kagami,

    After reading your post, a line stood out like CN tower.

    只會養出一班不明事理只懂盲從的‘蟻民’

    I know a brunch of 蟻民 already, they are some of the so called ‘creative writers’ in Hong Kong.

    You ever heard of the pseudo chinese ‘食材’? When I first saw it, I was like ‘What the beep is this? 食用藥材? Why not just call it 藥材?

    After doing some research, I finally found out what it means. 食材 is Japanese, 未烹調的食品 in Chinese Definition, or 材料 in proper Chinese.
    Is this what we call Creativity? Stop with the traditions, and welcome the externals.

    Are we that desperately devoted to the Japanese that no only do we name ourselves like a Japanese, we must start writing Japanese as well?

  30. Seems we may have a very short memory, have we forgot this:

    一本政經
    卿姐: 香港民主… Delay No More!
    July 22, 2007 · 16 Comments
    https://kahoo.wordpress.com/2007/07/22/%e5%8d%bf%e5%a7%90-%e9%a6%99%e6%b8%af%e6%b0%91%e4%b8%bb-delay-no-more/#comments

    Why everyone said “yes! good!" then, and now….
    If 卿姐 could use it to such praises, why is the folk “和諧民主派與你一起 民主派Delay 過 no more" here or the Mall can’t use it? Double standard?

  31. Thread:
    ——–
    Politicians need to address racist attacks: Human Rights Commission
    December 14, 2007

    獨孤求丙 // December 17, 2007 at 12:12 am

    Your View:

    姣婆蓮君:

    閣下鄉下是否德州名埠 Houston 個篤篤個 township, 叫 「侯斯頓篤」呢?

    Thread:
    ——–
    Delay No Mall? Delay No「貓」??

    Your View:

    獨孤求丙 // December 18, 2007 at 9:39 pm
    Get the point now? Profanity, or the mockery of its expressions, is only funny up to a certain extent. When we are flooded with it every second and every minute, I don’t think anyone will in his/her right mind think it’s trendy anymore.
    When an expression becomes a cliché, it’s going to make everyone puke even at the slightest thought of it!

    醜怪現形!

  32. Plesantly Live君有關[食材]一詞的評述, 也道出了我心中的疑惑. 有時看見了一些字, 明明是中文字, 但相連起來, 好像中文是沒有這樣的說法/組合, 那究竟是甚麽意思呢? 文字本來是應該活的, 吸收外來的文字本無可厚非, 但如果中文已有了所要表達的意思, 為什麼要採取他國的文字/用詞呢? 我們已有[故事]一詞, 為什麼要用[物語], 同樣地, 為什麼要用[料理]來代替[餐廰]呢(但如果是售賣日本食物, 那也可以說得過去). 華裔的女士們, 喜歡稱呼自己的丈夫作[主人]嗎?

  33. Cat Lover君,

    Do you think that this Delay no ‘貓’ is insulting to Cats every where? I personally am also a Cat lover, and it sounds as if the company that marketed this mall is claiming that they would like to have sexual intercourse with my Cat…

    Isn’t that illegal? Or was that only in Texas? I recall a women getting fined for playing with a horse’s genitals.

  34. it’s call double standard

  35. Based on the social/human culture of HK, the phase is irritated.

    In school, we do care about students who suffered from NUTs allergy, therefore, schools become “NUT FREE" environment.

    Posting it out on a big sign at a public/high-traffic area is just like keep shouting it out on a TV/Radio commerical. It just like forcing others who suffered from nuts allergy to deal with nuts everyday.

  36. 小麗媽:

    What’s your point? How would the two posts by 獨孤求丙 on different topics come to such conclusion? Don’t you think you owe him an explanation?

  37. 昨晚今天下午十二時仍沒有更進;內容是慰安婦陳卓瑜被責撈油水的一天節目;李家豪要親力親為防詐騙!!

    精彩重溫

    Part 1: 「Delay No Mall」爭論 (I)
    http://torontofirstnet.com/radioplay.php?file=20071218-1730

    Part 2: 「Delay No Mall」爭論 (II)
    http://torontofirstnet.com/radioplay.php?file=20071218-1800

    Part 3: 「Delay No Mall」爭論 (III)
    http://torontofirstnet.com/radioplay.php?file=20071218-1830

  38. 我同意李家豪有時會激過頭,不過係好少時間,而且能夠理解。黃毓民做節目聽落去好似好火咁,我聽落去覺得呢d係全情投入(有 heart) 。呢個世界唔會樣樣野都就哂你,如果唔係都唔會成日講共識。覺得個mall名有問題個班人士真係有問題,你而家走出街同d鬼講 delay no mall/more, 你估佢地會唔會打你? 哂氣啦,由頭到尾都係班人思想污穢,滿腦粗言穢語,人人都識廣東粗口? 我同阿媽講,話麥之華話 delay no mall好粗鄙,佢話呢個名都冇問題,點解咁講。有機心去解讀個 pronunciation ,人地可能一早知呢班保守人士會話粗口諧言,所以一早話明個正音, “貓”, 等人地唔錯諗錯隔離。點知……語言上都能夠見到咁多野, 咁我可以諗到阿爺係政治上點解會咁做,香港, 一個經個西方領度嘅地方都會有眾多保守人士,無話可說。陶傑做個集” 想一想香港” 好多野都中。

  39. 既然此題目令大家熱切及熱鬧地爭辨, 足以證明我大中華文化之博大精深。
    不過大家爭辨時, 不要忘記語言是隨著時間地域不停地演變, 可能若干年後, Delay No More 能變成"正音", 又或變成老師罰學生嘅借口。
    例如 : 老馮, 食硬, 李老板, 李老味, 童軍跳彈床………etc etc

    結論係 : 本來無一物, 何處……..

  40. 有無用錯例子? Plesantly Live // December 18, 2007 at 11:31 pm
    “You ever heard of the pseudo chinese ‘食材’? When I first saw it, I was like ‘What the beep is this? 食用藥材? Why not just call it 藥材?After doing some research, I finally found out what it means. 食材 is Japanese, 未烹調的食品 in Chinese Definition, or 材料 in proper Chinese."
    “材"即指原材料,有 “食材",有 “木材". 有鋼材",是四平八穩的中文.禮失求諸野,好多字原是普通中文,不過中原少用,如 “素材",日本仍保存使用中.

  41. Judged by the qualities of some incoming calls, no wonder the phrase has become so controversial.

    From a marketing or creativity point of view, it sure does its purpose to grab public’s attention. But being creative does not mean it is tasteful. To some, it becomes a paradox. The more ones talk about it; the further they lend fame (or rather notoriety) and popularity to it. For those who catch on the phrase and apply it to whenever possible (a fine example is among ourselves here in this blog), their action usually shows immaturity while their contents inevitably lack substances. In a free and mature society, there is no need for anyone, government, or community leaders to intervene. Only do the parents/teachers should educate their children/students how vulgar the phrase can potentially imply. For those grown-ups who have fun using the phrase in its offensive nature, they just have to face with the consequence (of being looked down by others). The best tactics to it is to treat it as a taboo. Avoid talking about it.

  42. abosultely agree

    it’s call double standard esp from that Cxt lover

  43. Have we forgot this?

    一本政經
    卿姐: 香港民主… Delay No More!
    July 22, 2007 · 16 Comments
    https://kahoo.wordpress.com/2007/07/22/%e5%8d%bf%e5%a7%90-%e9%a6%99%e6%b8%af%e6%b0%91%e4%b8%bb-delay-no-more/#comments

    Why everyone said “yes! good!” then, and now….
    If 卿姐 could use it to such praises, why is the folk “和諧民主派與你一起 民主派Delay 過 no more” here or the Mall can’t use it? Double standard?

  44. mei height law 又愛又恨:黑白不分

    double standard 屈老病

  45. Inspired by 見龍在田:

    禮失求諸野, 失禮留中原!

  46. 請比較cytodex 下面 “卿姐: 香港民主… Delay No More!" 的評論,然後看看現在上面的, “突然有品味"?🙂

    卿姐: 香港民主… Delay No More!
    July 22, 2007 · 16 Comments

    cytodex // July 23, 2007 at 12:34 pm

    Bravo!

    Indeed, I see that as no big deal with the slogan sounding near some cantonese coarse language. It’s a legitimate english, after all. It’s up to anyone to put that into different context.

  47. 時窮節乃現, 一一垂丹青

    Ecclesiastes 11:3
    If clouds are full of water, they pour rain upon the earth. Whether a tree falls to the south or to the north, in the place where it falls, there will it lie.

  48. Matthew 23:28
    In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

  49. lest we forget- everyone said “yes! good! delay no more” in

    一本政經
    卿姐: 香港民主… Delay No More!
    July 22, 2007 · 16 Comments
    https://kahoo.wordpress.com/2007/07/22/%e5%8d%bf%e5%a7%90-%e9%a6%99%e6%b8%af%e6%b0%91%e4%b8%bb-delay-no-more/#comments

  50. Subject: [卿姐: 香港民主… Delay No More!] vs [Delay No Mall? Delay No「貓」??]‏
    From: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Sent: Thursday, 20 December 2007 6:48:09 AM
    To: simon@kahoo.ca

    Hi Kahoo,

    I think your yesterday show totally missed the reference to your July 22 “卿姐: 香港民主… Delay No More" radio talk. No matter what your stand is, I think the last thing you don’t want to refer to is this.

    This was the first time “Delay No More" was publicly used. The blog then seemed to say “Yes! Good! Bravo!". Why did you not bring this out in your yesterday radio talk “Delay No Mall? Delay No「貓」??"? Are you losing track of your own shows? I think you have a good thing going on, please put in more due diligence in your work.

    又愛又恨:黑白不分

  51. 又愛又恨:黑白不分

    同一人對差不多同一題目於不同場合有不同詮釋,有啥稀奇?
    這就叫做 “兩面三刀". 簡單點就是 “兩副面孔"

  52. “握殺創意"定是"維持秩序"?
    有無大驚小怪?
    雪造2.5米高陽具 豬頭放女廁.宿生狂放 多大下迫遷令 http://www.singtao.ca/tor/2007-12-19/1198051916d707947.html

  53. I stand by my posts in previous and current threads. That is, 香港民主… Delay No More! If anyone sees “Delay No More" and immediately interpret it in an offensive manner, that’s your problem not mine.

    With that kind of mentality, no wonder Martin Lee’s “Direct Engagement" article can be smeared into a speech of treason.

  54. Hush… I won’t look down on…
    cytodex wrote:
    …The best tactics to it is to treat it as a taboo. Avoid talking about it.

    Only do the parents/teachers should educate their children/students how vulgar the phrase (“Delay No More”) can potentially imply. For those grown-ups who have fun using the phrase in its offensive nature, they just have to face with the consequence (of being looked down by others).

  55. 又愛又恨:黑白不分君:

    你一定以為找到了卿姐當日的[香港民主… Delay No More!], 而這裏有些網友認同她的說法, 便像如獲至寳般, 作為反駁的理據, 特別以之作為支持那以這三英文字作為署名一部份的留言客呢! 你可以同意那人的見解, 但不必完全同意/支持他所有的言行. 當他有些事做得不對時, 是否應該指出, 使他得以檢討/重新考慮自己的做法, 而不是盲目地去支持.

    1. 卿姐那句: [香港民主, Delay No More!] 是可以解得通的說法, 即是: [香港民主, 不能再推遲了!], 在這句說話中, 如果將Delay No More想成粗口, 那是聽者的問題. 並請注意, 這一句話, 香港民主在前, 如果說這話的人, 真的是借Delay No More的諧音來說粗口的話, 他/她一定是不贊同/支持香港民主的人, 因為在廣府話的語法, 先說一個名字, 然後說Delay No More諧音意思的話語, 就是對那人(他的親人)不敬, 所以, 由支持香港民主的悍將卿姐說出這句[香港民主, Delay No More], 絶對只有[香港民主, 不能再推遲了]這個解釋, 而不會是含有說粗口的意圖.

    2. 可是, 你要維護的那位留言客卻剛剛相反. 他的立埸明顯是反對香港有民主, 他的署名中含有[民主派Delay 過 no more], 就不能排除那說粗口, 以侮辱民主派的意圖. 況且, 他還要加強顯示他這個意圖, 在Delay後加上一個[過]字.

    你既經常引述經文, 你應相信這世上有己確立的道德/真理. 請真心的問問自己, 那位留言客取那署名的企圖是什麼? 他的用心如何? Delay過No More是什麼意思? 我相信你取署名為黑白不分是想指那些不能理解你那些正確見解的人, 而不是指你自己吧!

  56. 馬英九話打算將正體字申請成世界文化遣產,我舉腳贊成。全個臺灣,香港和澳門的主流相信亦會贊同。我最認同個句係,正體字一點也不繁!現在有了電腦輸入,殘體的優勢是甚麼呢?一些不倫不類,把字的意思撕奪的字體?毕,运,动,叶,听等等,都只能說是為了造字而造字。

  57. Cat Lover:

    Your post is noted and appreciated. I couldn’t have said it better myself.

  58. Sorry,

    那晚節目悶到飛起.. 浪費時間.. 未等到完就關了機.

  59. 青天葵同學:

    請恕我以虛長你幾歲的身份, 向你提一點意見. 就繁簡字的問題, 你可以說千百種支持和欣賞繁體字的理由, 但盡量不要說簡體字的不是. 須知使用簡體字的人佔絶大多數, 你批評簡體字, 便會直接刺激甚至可能傷害了他們, 你能想像有多少只懂簡體字的同胞, 會承認繁體字較簡體字優越, 主動花時間去認識繁體字呢? 我們都不是文字學家, 不能對繁簡字的優劣下一定論, 我們這些愛護繁體字的人, 面對中國當權者, 為某種原因, 推行文字攺革, 教導億萬同胞使用簡體字, 大勢已成, 我們在當下時局, 只能嘆句奈何而已!

  60. 正是:好人做壞事,壞事還是好的.壞人做好事,好事還是壞的.

    1.如果商場命名為「香港民主Delay No Mall」, 是可以解得通的, 即是: [香港民主, 不能再"Mall"了!], 在這句說話中, 如果將Delay No Mall想成粗口, 那是聽者的問題.
    2. 如果有喜歡做"copy cat"的小孩使用這"香港民主, Delay No More!", 是孩子,是家長的問題. 民主人士不用對教育問題負責. 為求民主,我們可以做在無關民主的情況下被認為是壞的事, 並可以犧牲我們的下一代.

    Matthew 23:28
    In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

  61. 又愛又恨:黑白不分君,

    如果你以上的留言, 是那位署名有中英文字的留言者貼上的, 我不會覺得驚訝或失望, 可是, 那卻是由你貼上, 我真的有點失望了

    1. 我本以為在這裏與你交流, 縱有不同意見, 那也是觀點和角度的問題, 只要擺事實, 講道理, 彼此必有得著. 可惜, 看來你留言的目的, 只是作口舌之爭, 為爭辯而爭辯, 真的是黑白不分了.

    甲. 首先, 現在沒有一個商塲要命名為[香港民主Delay No Mall]
    乙. 第二, 不錯, Mall 的音在廣東話可以是近似慢的意思. 但將這個意思放在[香港民主Delay No Mall]便太牽強了. 嚴格來說, 根本不可以說是解得通. 你的所謂解釋, 是一廂情願, 如果不要了Delay這字, 還勉強可以說得過去, 但如果只是[香港民主, No More]的話, 那只會使人理為[香港民主, 已沒有了]的意思, 而不會想到你提到的意思. Delay已是遲的意思了, 再來一個Mall音解作慢, 便重覆及太牽強了. 再退一步說, 如果以Mall的音解作慢的話, 去掉Delay 這字, 何來粗口的顧慮!

    2. 不錯, 你可以指責[香港民主Delay No More]也有可能對小朋友有壞影響, 但與此同時, 你應對那位選擇這三個英文字作部份署名的留言者, 同時作出指責. 你曾企圖指責網友雙重標準, 為什麼自己卻犯上這個錯誤呢? 如果有一個痛恨中共現今的當權者(你所崇拜/欣賞具國際視野的偶像), 不理性地說出什麼胡老總/温老總Delay No More等不恰當的話, 我也會作出反對和指斥.

  62. 因一時筆誤, 現將1:36pm的留言, 修攺如下, 請諒.

    又愛又恨:黑白不分君,

    如果你以上的留言, 是那位署名有中英文字的留言者貼上的, 我不會覺得驚訝或失望, 可是, 那卻是由你貼上, 我真的有點失望了

    1. 我本以為在這裏與你交流, 縱有不同意見, 那也是觀點和角度的問題, 只要擺事實, 講道理, 彼此必有得著. 可惜, 看來你留言的目的, 只是作口舌之爭, 為爭辯而爭辯, 真的是黑白不分.
    甲. 首先, 現在沒有一個商塲要命名為[香港民主Delay No Mall]
    乙. 第二, 不錯, Mall 的音在廣東話可以是近似慢的意思. 但將這個意思放在[香港民主Delay No Mall]便太牽強了. 嚴格來說, 根本不可以說是解得通. 你的所謂解釋, 是一廂情願, 如果不要了Delay這字, 還勉強可以說得過去, 但如果只是[香港民主, No Mall]的話, 那也會使人理解為[香港民主? 不!]的意思, 而不會想到你提到的意思. Delay已是遲的意思了, 再來一個Mall音解作慢, 便重覆及太牽強了. 再退一步說, 如果以Mall的音解作慢的話, 去掉Delay 這字, 何來粗口的顧慮!

    2. 不錯, 你可以指責[香港民主Delay No More]也有可能對小朋友有壞影響, 但與此同時, 你應對那位選擇這三個英文字作部份署名的留言者, 同時作出指責. 你曾企圖指責網友雙重標準, 為什麼自己卻犯上這個錯誤呢? 如果有一個痛恨中共現今的當權者(你所崇拜/欣賞具國際視野的偶像), 不理性地說出什麼胡老總/温老總Delay No More等不恰當的話, 我也會作出反對和指斥.

  63. CatLover,我只是支持正體字,可是文字這個題目不是只有文字學家才能批評,我個人認為只要是那種文字的使用者都可評論。這個不是甚麼要擁有專業知識才能明白和感受到的話題,如果只有政治學家(學家,這個專稱是在相當學系中擁有博士學位的人,跟據我所理解)才能批評政治,那麼我們全都要擁有這麼高的學歷,才能說那位政客是政治惡棍嗎?文化與生活是適適相關的,我是以我自己的文化觀點作出評論,但國內的網民沒有對"繁體"作出評價嗎你有沒有使用facebook的習慣?簡體使用者亦會批評正體的,那是雙方面,不是我有甚麼特權。然而不是每個國內同袍都會主動花時間學習繁體,那時可以理解的。請恕我直言,你這些傳統中國人心態是能夠理解的,但時代和人的思維是在進步/轉變,和西方文化接軌是必然之事,所以以往的觀點可能已經過時了。我中學時候的數學老師亦對全班說過,"English sucks as a language but not as a teacher.",因為佢姓 English。

  64. 青天葵的原身, CatLover:

    (1) “"不是只有文字學家才能批評,我個人認為只要是那種文字的使用者都可評論"" —- AGREED.

    We should say ‘正體字’, not ‘繁體字’.

    (2) “"你能想像有多少只懂簡體字的同胞, 會承認繁體字較簡體字優越, 主動花時間去認識繁體字呢?""

    The number could not give the RIGHT answer. Most of them believed ‘Cultural Revolution’ was the ‘right’ thing and the ‘little red book’ a bible. Now, this is history.

    The logic behind is: If you say impossible, then impossible; possible will be possible.

    If HK people ONLY believe the city will turn deep RED in the near future, they should not ask for free vote. In doing so, they believe HK will get free vote.

    I don’t know ‘馬英九話打算將正體字申請成世界文化遣產’. I think South Korea should do that as well. Because S.K. tried for some others. I hope they both compete for.

    I myself almost ignore all 簡體字 printed matters. First, I could not read most; second, China has tight control on their thinking, so I could not rely on them; Third, fewer readers may tell them 簡體字 is not welcome and should change.

    I am day dreaming!!. Yes. This is my dream.

  65. 青天葵的原身(不會用粗言穢語的) // December 20, 2007 at 2:26 pm

    完全同意上文

    補充:中文全面簡體化在中共坐穩皇庭後推行是有其歷史故事的.在當時全中國實在太多文盲,是以有學者提出中文全面簡體化來先提高國人閱讀水平然後才由簡入繁.至於簡體化後是利多還是弊多仍需有識之士去研究.
    其實中文簡體化在中國數千文明中不斷進行,但從沒有像數十年前大規模地進行;一蹴即至或拔苗助長就見人見智!
    至於有人說"須知使用簡體字的人佔絶大多數, 你批評簡體字, 便會直接刺激甚至可能傷害了他們, 你能想像有多少只懂簡體字的同胞, 會承認繁體字較簡體字優越, 主動花時間去認識繁體字呢?" 有多少真確我不得而知?但我知道國內已有股運動正推行繁體普及化,用繁體學古文,希望在國內奄奄一息的繁體字可以復活起來.

  66. 請冷靜下來,我要說的第二點"2. 如果有喜歡做”copy cat”的小孩", 就是指出一個事實,即 “copy cat"= “cut & paste" ,在這裡用了 卿姐當日的[香港民主… Delay No More!] 到 她/他的名字,這展示了卿姐的壞影響, “"香港民主… Delay No More""被小孩或其他人利用了,你看不到嗎?

    好人不能為好事而做壞事,否則同壞人又有何分別? 好人為好事而做壞事, 只會越做越壞.

    Deuteronomy 16:19
    Do not pervert justice or show partiality. Do not accept a bribe, for a bribe blinds the eyes of the wise and twists the words of the righteous.

  67. 又愛又恨:黑白不分君:

    如果不是我老糊塗, 便是你語無倫次, 不能將意思表達清楚. 我完全不能明白你在說什麼? 什麼[有喜歡做”copy cat”的小孩]; [指出事實, 即 “copy cat”= “cut & paste”]; [用了 卿姐當日的[香港民主… Delay No More!] 到 她/他的名字, 展示了卿姐的壞影響, “”香港民主… Delay No More”"被小孩或其他人利用了], [你看不到嗎?] 我應該看到什麼? 你究竟在說什麼?

    反而我覺得你原先的第2點意思很清楚.

  68. 青天葵同學:

    1. 什麼是正體字? 你能告訴我嗎? 我恐怕說來說去, 會被那些用簡體字的同胞說你是指繁體字是正體字, 簡體字便是[不正]體字.
    2. 我不是說只有文字學家才能批評, 我是說只有他們才能下一個有說服力的定論. 須知道沒有權威性的論據, 批評簡體字是會衝擊很多人的切身利益, 引來極大的反擊, 我只是好言相勸. 以免你觸及禁忌罷了.

  69. 見龍在田兄:

    你認為那股運動能成氣候的可能性有多高呢?

    在青天葵同學沒有加入那運動之前, 我想如果他獨自(可能加上你)在加國推崇繁體字, 能受到從國內來的同胞歡迎的機會是微乎其微的.

  70. Cat Lover 君:
    中國之大,我看得到了解得到是非常之少,可能你是了解到很多就不然而知?我所說所寫是我了解到的一部份!
    確實,近代中國人因受不同地域文化政治衝擊,以至思想分岐!實不應斷言誰較文明,誰較閉塞?
    近百年中國面貌雖較以前大大不同,當中經歷有喜有悲!而對比千古長河,短短百年之上落算此甚麼?
    國內同胞受簡體字的荼毒非其所願,簡體字就是他們自少學的字體,何罪之有?至於繁體字可否完全復甦,除民間推動亦需政府策劃,暫時未見有大規模舉動,但在大城市用繁體字作店鋪招牌開始多見.
    謙虛是天堂的鑰匙,共勉之!

  71. Cat Lover:

    ‘什麼是正體字?’: It is the traditional one. From the PROPAGANDA point of view, 正體字 is better than 繁體字.

    Is it ‘簡體字便是[不正]體字’? This is a SUBTLE question; do not say so, BUT just let 同胞 think.

    ……………………………………………………………..
    ‘你認為那股運動能成氣候的可能性有多高呢?’

    Who knows. But, if you want to make the rule, break the rule first.

    Your question is so similar to others right before BIG movements. Name a few:
    – ‘China will not let Tung step down’,
    – ‘Hongkong 23 security law must be in force’,
    – ‘KokManTang (Republic of China) army was
    well equipped with USA weapons,
    communists won’t win’.

    Keep in mind. Martin L. King: I have a dream.

    Try to influence people around you. And let the result RUN.

    If you want a FIRM result, then you start the ball. You will never get one – this is not a perfect world.
    ……………………………….
    p.s. A news happened weeks ago. Some 同胞 send their children across the border to HK daily for education. One of the reasons is let their children learn 正體字.

  72. Cat Lover,當一個人批評的時候不就是下了定論嗎?你最初並沒有說明一個具說服力的定論,所以我不能理解清楚你的意思。我支持,亦會盡自己的能力來推動繁體。我不是不接受意見,而是覺得人是不應該未嘗試而放棄。沒辦法說服別人就算了吧,我不會拿著手槍來恐嚇別人,強迫他人學習繁體。據我理解,從歷史角度出發,繁體就是正體,簡體只是經共產黨改造過的繁體。再這,我和中國同學們亦有時會談及中國政治等東西,大家看法雖然不同,但不會傷及友情。

  73. Cat Lover:

    “我不是說只有文字學家才能批評, 我是說只有他們才能下一個有說服力的定論. 須知道沒有權威性的論據, 批評簡體字是會衝擊很多人的切身利益, 引來極大的反擊, 我只是好言相勸. 以免你觸及禁忌罷了."

    DISAGREE. If you read a book, you are a LAY person. If you read two, you are 權威家. This is my real fight experience in the real world.

    Name a few examples. Internet technology and the recent sub-prime investments. Northern Telecom and the BIG banks around the world have a LOT write-offs. If those 權威家 could lose BIG real money, they might make mistakes in this culture issue.

    Another one: the ratios between population and food growth. Our food costs less even we double our world population of 50 years ago.

    DO NOT TRUST them that much, especially the big one.

    Oh. i go too far…..

  74. 怎麽會討論起繁、簡體字來架!
    在中國有好多年青人在學習繁体字和香港話架(事實廣府話與香港話確是有出入),尤其喜歡唱歌一族。Karaoke女郎更是突出,書法一族都公認繁體確比簡体來得有氣勢。
    在上海市的繁体字用得最多,尤其是招牌,北京就比較少。
    遊戲有規則、職業有守則,絕不能過界,過界便犯規,輕則受責,重則GameOver。創作、自由亦然,創作自由是有底綫,若拿著自由來向道德、人格來挑戰,這種人便是………!!
    例如一部好的電視劇或電影係冇必要加入接吻和床上戲,但不知何時,這些兒童不宜靜悄悄地入咗屋。看看星爺的電影,雖是有點胡鬧但絕不色,還在笑中有淚,對白精彩這才是真正創作。
    這商塲的名字絕不能稱甚麽創作,只屬取巧,若然有日有個小童對你說:我今日去X你老X。然後告訴你,這句是這個商塲名字的諧音咋!不知閣下又有何感想。

  75. Delay No More 或 Delay No Mall 用在商品上有無問題,有無品味是一個問題,應留待消費者去決定,這是香港精神,香港可貴之處.

  76. […] “delay no mall” business opened up a whole can of worms in the comments here, how common low culture has become pop culture, and therefore should it be erradicated? (ignore the […]

  77. 見龍在田君,

    “材”有多種, 有木材, 有鋼材.
    建築大廈的有建材. 木工的有木材

    “材”用於人建造或修造的物體,但不是烹。
    您聽說有人蒸一間房?或可以炸一個雕像?
    我不相信我們能建築食物。 如果那樣,我們大可以容材(音)建築政府。

    那麼耶律楚材又怎樣?

  78. Plesantly Live
    有見識!🙂 有見地!🙂 你漏了 “蠢才" hahaha

  79. 青天葵同學:

    1. 看來你還是不十分瞭解我給你意見的目的, 你的精神和態度我非常認同和欣賞. 我勸你盡量不要說簡體字的不是, 只是不希望你被圍攻而已.

    2. 我所用的句子是:[我們都不是文字學家, 不能對繁簡字的優劣下一定論], 如果我這樣的說法所指的定論仍不包括有具說服力的意思, 那是我的表達得不好, 下次會說得更詳細清楚點.

    3. 你和中國同學討論政治等東西, 不偒及友情, 有很大程度是(一)你們只是在求學階段, 機心不多; (二) 純屬口水交談, 不涉實際利益. 但如果批評簡體字便完全不同了, 那觸及很多人的切身利益, 宜小心為上.

  80. d.k.,

    Are you sure you know there are two different versions of Chinese characters calling 正統字and 繁體字? Just take an example, is繁 a 正統字 or 繁體字? If it is a繁體字, what is its corresponding正統字 and vice versa?

    I appreciate you are enthusiastic to participate in the discussions/debates in this blog. I hate but still have to say, the examples you quoted are not so relevant to the current discussions about Chinese characters between 青天葵同學and me. For reasons, please read my messages to him. However, your opinions on繁體字and簡體字 is very welcomed.

  81. Cat Lover:

    I am sure there are more than 2 versions of Chinese characters. However, when we say 繁體字/正體字 and 簡體字 in China, ROC or HK, (broadly say within people with Chinese heritage), we understand WHAT we are talking about.

    If you need to clarify from point to point, or word to word, you need to write a book BUT not a blog.

    To 青天葵同學; you said “但如果批評簡體字便完全不同了, 那觸及很多人的切身利益, 宜小心為上."

    There must be reasons behind both of you which I don’t know. I admit…..

    Thanks.

  82. 見龍在田君,

    hahaha, 我真的漏了 “蠢才”!!

    雖然政府內有很多….我真的瞎了!!

  83. By the way, it doesn’t matter which version of Chinese Characters we are using, just use the one that is easier to memorize

  84. d.k.,

    Maybe my question is not clear enough. It’s absolutely sure there are more than 1 versions of Chinese characters, like 繁體字and簡體字. However, are there one set of characters called 繁體字 and another set of characters called 正體字? Please note that this is not ‘to clarify point to point, or word to word’. This is to ask a basic question. Will it be 繁體字 the same as正體字 like青天葵同學said [繁體就是正體]? Hence, what you explained 正體字 by saying ‘It is the traditional one. From the PROPAGANDA point of view, 正體字 is better than 繁體字.’is obviously not correct if 繁體字 is the same as正體字.

    Your expression ‘Is it ‘簡體字便是[不正]體字’? This is a SUBTLE question; do not say so, BUT just let 同胞 think.’ is also not appropriate since you only quoted part of my sentence. My complete sentence is ‘什麼是正體字? 你能告訴我嗎? 我恐怕說來說去, 會被那些用簡體字的同胞說你是指繁體字是正體字, 簡體字便是[不正]體字.’ I was not saying ‘簡體字便是[不正]體字’. What I said was if 青天葵同學could not put forward a different set of characters to be identified as 正體字, then those only used 簡體字 would think that he took 繁體 as 正體 and implied 簡體 as不正體. They would be irritated because no one would like to be identified as 不正. Please don’t quote part of one’s sentence and say something which distorted the author’s ideas. This is a good example of斷章取義.

  85. Cat Lover:

    I may tell where are our misunderstandings?

    I said “From the PROPAGANDA point of view, 正體字 is better than 繁體字."

    I meant: from MARKETING point of view, the name (not the content) 正體字 is better than the name 繁體字.

  86. Cat Lover:

    I meant 正體字 = 繁體字 in content.

    Let me get the Q9 Traditional Chinese Writer software and have my blog for more interesting issues…….Any suggestions?

    Will see….

  87. “DelayNoMall"…是好是壞是粗俗, 因人而異, 反對嘅話不文, 支持嘅話過癮, 以此命名, 大概係玩吓Gap同幽默, 同早前’十四K’ 單嘢差唔多嗟, 重要睇吓你對我地廣東人同香港文化識幾多至明, 喺香港長大嘅除非係未出過街, 又點會唔識個中奧妙, 連好多喺香港住得耐嘅老外都整句似是而非嘅"Delay no more" 出嚟, 但識同講係兩回事, 講粗口唔一定係要做, 好多人只當係口頭禪同助語詞咁用, 就好似唱歌咁成日掛喺口邊, 所以, 喺香港生活, 免不了要忍受呢啲此起彼落嘅次文化問候, 頂唔順就只好行開, 再唔忍得就只好走投, 遠離廣府人聚居之地, 移民亦大概可以避一避, 當然唔好上廣州喇. 至於應否取締, 又係阿頭同阿公話是, 偉大祖國不也是提倡五講四美, 八榮八恥…, 但民間還不是你有你講, 我行我素嗎? 就如文字演變, 都按其需要同環境因數而成嘅.
    講開文字, 北京推行文字簡化以減少國內文盲絕對是好主意, 祗是, 有時候變得太厲害過了火就不大好, 隨著第二輪文字改革、之後第三輪、第四…下來, 還說要中文羅馬化, 文字簡化到失去直接認知效用, 變成要靠死記硬認才明, 連國內朋友都認為計未必好, 除了有意義混淆, 就如"芙蓉面" 不是形容美女而只是碗麵條, 王后被轉譯成"王後"等笑話, 長遠會做成更多新生代因對文字認知困難, 而與咱們中國悠久固有文化連繫割斷, 就如另一次文化大革命和相類於日本、韓國以至臺灣現政府的去中國化運動般, 與改良進化的原意相違背, 所以, 絕對同意中國應推行簡、繁體中文並教, 讓國民對漢文字掌握得更好, 類似秦朝以大篆為官用文字而小篆為民間通用字般亦可, 反正, 在今天社會謀生, 通曉多種語言是必備, 香港人不也是在學三語兩文增值求存嗎? 以我們原有文化根基, 學兩體中文不就像學國、粵語般方便嗎? 不然, 讓韓國人搶先向聯合國申報漢字甚至所有中國文化和歷史為他們的文化遺產甚至變成中國人的老祖宗就天大的事了.
    講翻粗俗語言以至粗口爛舌, 據說民國當年政府投票選官方語言時好彩廣東話輸兩票, 若果唔係, 前中國外長喬冠華晌聯合國拍檯鬧人出到國罵時就尷尬嘞. 最後, 未知各方網友有否認識其他地方的罵人語句, 譬如日本人口中的"馬鹿野郎", 北方人罵娘"他媽的", 相類似的"son of the bitch", 甚或比廣東粗口更勁嘅, 倘能用文字表達而又唔會被刪, 不妨教大家見識吓, 有個朋友話佢聽過一口氣以廿六個字包括所有生殖器官名詞動詞講晒出嚟嘅粗口喎, 但係就記唔起點講咁話, 淨係識講sorry, 所以, 都係睇自己有無心裝載嘅嗟.

  88. d.k.,

    I now understand what the problem is. We are talking about Chinese characters and you are talking about font.

  89. Cat Lover, 青天葵同學:

    Yes. However, the reasons that I like (love) 正體字
    stay the same….

    Good day…….

  90. There is a joke about chinese characters….
    中國古代思想大家莊周(莊子)繞夢回鄉, 驚嘆於今天新中國進化之大之餘; 趕快回家見他底闊別多年的老婆, 找了半天才找到自己熟識的大宅, 騖然見門上牌扁是[庄府], 難道房子賣了? 思量了好一會, 決定搞門問明白, 應門的看了莊周的名片, 卻不讓他內進, 因為他家庄老爺不姓莊….爭拗間莊周老婆出來了, 才….
    then, about Houston…pronounced [hju:s-ton]以譯國音[休斯頓]或粵音[曉士頓]較近, instead of [haus-ton]侯斯頓, 因應有網友互窒對方家鄉?? 及提倡讀所謂正音的鄰台報導新聞和體育消息的譯音謬誤….

  91. 估唔到一講文化野會有咁大迴響。不過講番3.17補選,Bob Rae出戰 Toronto Center,個度省選係Smitherman個位,但係 Toronto center聯邦 個位係邊個黨贏開? Layton同 Olivia Chow係 Toronto贏出,我希望NDP有人打贏Bob Rae。講開,dion話二月尾至三頭會否決財政預算案,咁睇法,係咪會冇補選?講歌神個時,隔雜台有個女聽眾打上去話 Harper減tax係小恩小慰,真係唔知佢諗乜,"hip"埋眼投比 liberals.打完齋唔要和尚。一個話通漲,個位人兄可以連新聞都冇聽。講開環保,有d人就真係………呢個issue ,dion 係偽君子,講就一套,自己做就另一套。自己做環境部長個時就…….

  92. 又玩"正音"?1010, 好大鑊?成個多倫多都人心惶惶!懷疑自己是"正"音,定係"不正"音

  93. IO.IO. :

    “據說民國當年政府投票選官方語言時好彩廣東話輸兩票, " That was what I learned, but I don’t know the details. Do you…?

  94. 我記得好似係話係孫中山唔想廣東話做官方語言,我都唔知佢個時諗乜。我中文班阿sir 講過,廣東話保留左d古代字/音,我最記得係個翼字,古代時候唔係用翅膀。

  95. d.k.:
    After Republic of China found, the nationalist government mainly cantonese led by Dr. Sun Yat-Sen in Nanking struggled to get support from military powers and former warlords in northern China to stable the new born country by compromising each other including choose of official language, Cantonese was supported by southern revolutionist and Mandarin backed by northern powers mainly from Beijing. At last, Mandarin won by two votes and remaining the official Chinese language as I know.

  96. correction…about Delay No Mall, second line of the first paragraph, should be… 大概係玩下gag 同幽默,…was spelled wrong, sorry.

  97. http://www.2012us.com/mailinglist/
    如果可以嘅話,聽日講下,聖誕2012雙普選e-card

  98. Skin Inks Exhibition Closing Party
    The closing party of the Skin:Inks exhibition on July 10 had to be the coolest Hong Kong party in many months. Party goers, celebrities, über-cool tattooed guys and gals packed Cliq nightclub to celebrate skin art and raise funds for the Kely Support Group. So-u.Tv’s team was there to catch all the action including Phat Chan from 24 Herbs getting a tattoo by Gabe, David Beckam’s tattoo artist. See it all at http://www.so-u.tv/playVideo.php?id=1888

  99. 問題唔係果個字, 而係背後道出左香港人既修養 & 質素, 確實係低俗了不少, 每況愈下.


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