發文作者:kahoo | 四月 26, 2007

聯邦應否跟隨安省做法, 2012年全國禁售傳統白熱燈泡?

今日嘉賓:   安省內閣廳長  陳國治

精彩重溫:

Part 1 (starts at 16:30):

http://www.torontofirstradio.com/archive.asp?filename=ampart12-4-26-2007.asf

Part 2:
http://www.torontofirstradio.com/archive.asp?filename=ampart13-4-26-2007.asf

Part 3:
http://www.torontofirstradio.com/archive.asp?filename=ampart14-4-26-2007.asf

Part 4:
http://www.torontofirstradio.com/archive.asp?filename=ampart15-4-26-2007.asf


Responses

  1. 作曲: 你進一
    作詞/主唱: Steppy

    能迴避嘛 我怕了揀那電燈膽
    聽著你們 來來回委曲中互罵
    逼我要換個膽 卻又很不慣
    要比錢一剎又折返

    能承認嘛 我故意揀那舊燈膽
    他日託人從羅湖 入貨也不難
    善良人埋藏著最壞的心眼
    妄想一天法例會散 會比我揀

  2. 如果慳電胆平一半,我一定舉埋腳贊成。
    立例禁止,不如禁用平油,一定要octine 94才可用,這樣做更環保,更搶錢。

  3. 1. 我反對政府用行政指令的方式去禁售傳統的白熱燈泡.
    2. 我深信我在二零一二年時己全面改用節能燈泡, 我亦深信大多數的加拿大人也會這樣做. 政府根本不需要禁售傳統白熱燈泡, 因為到時我們就算想去買這類燈泡, 也會如現在我們想去購買一個二十七吋的黑白電視機一樣困難.
    我希望我的反對, 不會被今天在節目中來電的那位潘先生指責為犯賤. 我在香港長大,九七年前已移居加國, 從未受過共產黨的統治. 他指責從中國來的移民, 如果反對政府這項政策就是犯賤. 但他的邏輯根本有問題. 我們那些同胞, 可能正是不想做不能發出反對聲音的賤民才到加國啊

  4. 講得好! 潘先生對我呢個賤人有犯賤狂鬧到開花,因為我d反叛性格,如果生長喺共產黨嘅偉大領導下,一定出第一句聲已要坐監,第二句聲已經槍斃喇。咁而家有得犯賤(人權憲章一定有保護我犯賤自由),所以今次就要盡情犯喇!

    其實呢d慳電膽,即 CFL (Compact Fluorescent Lamp), 讓在下將事實及聽衆意見,分析一吓好處同壞處及補救方法吧:

    好處:
    ---
    可慳電高達七成(例: 20W慳電胆可發出傳統白熱燈泡的60W光度), 即發電廠亦唔需要負荷咁大, 對用有副射性礦物同媒亦需求減少。

    壞處:
    ---
    1.含水銀 - 但現時如用煤發電而又用傳統白熱燈泡,水銀排放出來更多。 政府亦可立例慳電胆要回收再以工業程序取回水銀, 以免污染環境。

    2.射電磁場 - 呢樣同光管一樣,而且如果冇傳統白熱燈泡賣, 亦可用 halogen 燈胆, 一樣好慳電 (註:halogen 燈胆亦要用火牛,但火牛並不在燈胆中)

    3. 太耀眼 – 有一聽衆話「澄眼」, 因為慳電胆發出嘅光譜頻率太狹窄, 卽傳統白熱燈胆嘅光射比較似太陽光, 差唔多乜顏色都出齊。 但慳電胆則得一兩種色混埋一齊射出黎, 所以視力有問題嘅人就好易中招, 頂唔順喇。 解決方法可將不同色塗層上一個慳電胆上, 便可解決單一顏色問題。胆本身雖然會大一些, 不過對眼力有問題嘅人, 亦局住要架喇。如做枱燈, 亦有「自然光」光管賣。

    4. 太大個, 唔 fit 水晶燈或現有燈罩 – 水晶燈唔係日日開著, 做樣多過實用, 可將水晶燈常用嘅尖形細燈胆提高零售稅, 以鼓勵人錫住黎用, 唔好開咁多就可補返條數。

    點都好, 唔駛禁用, 只雖教育市民, 再提高白熱燈胆銷售稅等等, 當需求銳減時, 製造白熱燈胆嘅皮費就自然高漲, 白熱燈胆就即變奢侈品, 到時叫人用都冇人想用架啦! 就算用, 都會就住開, 一燒胆就喊都無謂喇!

  5. 請此區的老友記們原諒我說一些離題的話.

    看過求丙兄有關反對意見的說話, 再回想潘先生的說話, 我有些感想.

    從潘先生的談話中, 他好像很不滿中國共產黨不讓(如果不是壓制)人民提出反對其政策的聲音. 可是當潘先生聽見有很多中國人(可能有更多非中國人)反對他認為是少有的執政和在野黨共同倡導的德政時, 他卻憤怒起來.

    在西方的政制中, 有所謂反對黨. 反對黨主要是提反對執政黨政策的意見. 反對黨的地位較其他在野黨為高, 它的領袖所領的報酬, 較其他的議員為高, 國家更為反對黨領袖提供住所. 這些較佳的待遇, 就是表明, 一個真正為人民福祉工作的政府, 是如何尊重和渴求反對的聲音.

    但當我們聽見與我們不同意見時, 每每卻感到不是味兒, 甚至感到憤怒 (如潘先生). 我們憑什麼可以相信自己的見解一定是對的呢? 其實, 聽到與自己相同的意見, 當然高興, 因為這似乎表示自己是對的可能性高了些, 但贊成的原因, 可能多已被自己想到了, 那對自己實質有什麼益處呢? 唯有聽到與自己不同的意見, 才可能提醒自己, 有什麼理據自己是疏忽了, 從而再反覆思考. 如果自己能證明反對的理據不能成立, 那自己的結論便更堅實了. 但如果反對的理據更充份, 我們也應從善如流.

    我們的祖國, 何時才有合法的反對黨呢?

    求丙兄: 你的留言一如以往的出色, 資料與分析俱備. 你的引言更令我一時感慨, 牢騒一番, 浪費了不少網友時間. 但無論如何, 謝謝.

  6. 目前嘅慳電膽難以適合唔同場合使用,禁售傳統白熾燈泡確有好大嘅助選嫌疑。如果政府真係想全民慳電嘅話,不如禁電爐同電焗爐,又或者禁煲老火湯。呢啲比白熾燈泡唔知要用多幾多電。
    而且政府管理嘅街道及高速公路照明燈都應該加自動控制,唯有天黑到某程度先致著。周不時天光白日都見著住。呢方面慳出來嘅電唔係更快更有效咩?

    另外如果市場有需求,若干年后賣黑市白熾燈泡可成為一種新商機都唔定,到時警方又多啲嘢做啦。

    留意到有一種LED燈。目前主要用作室外嘅太陽能燈同室內嘅長明燈。如果光度亮方面可以得以突破嘅話,應該會成為另一種更為慳電嘅光源。詳情可睇 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LED_lamp。

  7. 加拿大,係到食,係到住就要比我地管,要禁就禁,要拉就拉,有錢,法庭見啦!

  8. Below can answer few concerns general public may have. Yes I agree Government or related organizations need to do more public education and awareness –
    1) Quote – Ironically, a regular incandescent light bulb actually releases much more mercury into the environment than a CFL. CFLs prevent mercury from entering our air, where it most affects our health by reducing energy demand at the power plant. The highest source of mercury in our air comes from burning fossil fuels such as coal, the most common fuel used in Michigan to produce electricity. A CFL uses up to 75% less energy than an incandescent light bulb and lasts up to 10 times longer. A power plant will emit 10mg of mercury to produce the electricity to run an incandescent bulb compared to only 2.4mg of mercury to run a CFL for the same time.
    More info from National Electrical Manufacfturer Association

    2) From Natural Resources Canada –
    For a basis of comparison, there are about 500 milligrams to two grams of mercury in your average home thermometer. It would take between 100 to 400 CFLs to equal that same amount of mercury!

    http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/ENERGYSTAR/english/consumers/questions-answers.cfm#dispose

  9. Majority of CFL is produced from China. If you go to Shenzhen or Shanghai next time, you will be amazed most commercial building, shopping malls, hotels are already widely using CFL; not to mention countries in Europe. Further, most CFL available right now are T2 version, T3 is quickly on their way and China is also beginning to produce T4 version. Very qucikly the mercury content will become even less. By 2012, the technology will be definitely far better than right now. In another sense, Canada is behind already.

    Beside CFL, you will also find Electric Bicycle and Electric Motorcycle everywhere in Shanghai right now. Yet Canada is just start to introduce Electric Bicycle. China modernization is catching up very very quickly and will overtake Canada, in my view, very soon.

  10. CFL Recycling Program –
    This is coming very very soon I believe. IKEA USA and several other retailers already have this type of program in place. Again Canada is behind.

  11. Thanks for everyone’s detailed information on the comparisons between the two kinds of lighting sources and, hopefully, all the information we provide here and elsewhere will give our provincial and Federal governments some insights into their ill-conceived energy conservation programs. Also, sorry for wasting the readers’ time in digesting my grumpy comments toward 潘先生 (by the way, to be precise, that was 103 words plus punctuation marks out of a total of 716 words & punctuation marks – excluding my name – which comes out to be 14.39% of time wasted reading my post). My goal is to waste only about 5% or less next time and I’ll keep my fingers crossed on this ambitious goal!

    Great comment 開玩笑兄. I forgot to mention about this promising technology as well. LED lamps have actually been employed on applications ranging from automobiles (high-end GM cars) to industrial/home/hand-held lighting. Finally, we can say good-bye to Edison’s great invention on which we have all relied for more than 130 years.

  12. LED Bulb will eventually come. The cost is very very expensive right now. You can buy in Los Angeles. Right now we use LED as Christmas Decoration and the Automotive industry using LED widely. But a LED Bulb still need time to lower production cost and eventually reaches the level that we can afford.

    We as consumer in Canada need to willingly accept new technology and generate the Demand, then the Supply will come to us. China modernization grow in a rapid rate, simple because the Demand is there.

  13. By the way, 一聽眾女仕, I absolutely don’t feel that you wasted our time (or least not mine) in reading your attack on the Chinese Communist Party. I actually enjoyed your comments about 共產黨. Not that I have anything against the ideology of communism, but the way they handle situations is nothing less than being barbarous and have never failed to give everyone a feeling that they don’t belong to the 21st century, as indicated again by the jail sentence given to玉山江 (Huseyin Celil). Nice bashing, your 牢騒 is very well justified. At the same time, as I playfully wrote however, I will also try to refrain from dumping too much of my negative sentiments on this blog!).

    Thanks, 一聽眾女仕.

  14. Ken,

    Thanks for the valuable information on Compact Fluorescent Lamp (CFL) and letting us know that CFL has been widely used in Mainland China.

    I think we are not refusing to accept new technology, but only objecting our government to use administrative measures to ban the sale of traditional incandescent light bulbs.

    I have the following observations and queries.

    1. CFL has been widely used in Mainland China. On the other hand, the sale of traditional incandescent light bulbs has not been banned in China. Why do our government need to ban it in Canada in order to promote the acceptance of CFL? Do our government think that the social consciousness of our citizens is lower? She needs to use such a overbearing policy to force Canadians to change their practice even though CFL is surely better?
    2. Why can CFL be better accepted in Mainland China than in Canada? Has the Chinese government done anything to promote it? Is there anything the Canadian government can learn from China’s experience in this aspect?

    多謝提供有關節能燈泡的寶貴資料和讓我們知道節能燈泡在中國大陸已被廣泛使用.
    我想我們不是拒絶接受新的科技, 而只是反對我們的政府用行政手段去禁售傳統白熱燈泡而已.
    我有如下的觀察和疑問:
    1. 節能燈泡在中國廣泛地使用. 另一方面, 在中國卻沒有禁售傳統白熱燈泡. 為什麼我們的政府要在加拿大禁售, 以推廣節能燈泡呢? 是我們的政府認為我們的國民社會意識較低? 以致雖然節能燈泡是明顯較優勝, 她仍需要用這般霸道的政策, 去迫使加人改變使用習慣?

    2. 為何節能燈泡在中國較在加拿大被接受? 中國政府曾做過什麼工作去推廣? 在這方面的中國經驗, 加國政府有什麼可以借鏡的?

  15. Thanks for providing us with the current situation in PRC. Like 一聽眾女仕, I am also interested to know how China could push the use of CFL’s to such a ubiquitous level without the need to pass strict law to prohibit the use of conventional incandescent light bulbs. Here are some of my guesses of the driving forces that are present in China but are generally not found here:

    1. Under the pressure of the frequent power shortages and blackouts in most parts of China, power rationing has become a common necessity in a lot of commercial and industrial centres.

    2. With some many new developments in China due to low labour rates, new commercial/industrial establishments are constructing their facilities literally from the ground up. Therefore, these buildings can easily make provisions for the generally larger sizes and different shapes of CFL’s.

    3. With the world shifting its the manufacturing side of production to China, Chinese workers and managers have to assimilate new technologies in order to put together these new products. That is probably why before Canadians knew about CFL (and, for that matter, most other new products as well), mainland Chinese might already have learned and been using these products in every corner of the nation.

    One more remark I would like to make about Simon (家豪) and “Woodie’s" (木然) comments on the benefit of traditional incandescent light bulbs in terms of the heat dissipated by these bulbs. They said that use of CFL’s could jack up our electric/natural gas bills in the winter because our heater would have to work harder to make up for the loss of heat that we used to get from incandescent bulbs.

    I don’t think this conclusion is justified and here is why.

    Natural gas heating is cheaper than electric heating and I think most Canadian homes have a natural gas furnace at home (except in much older and rural homes). Instead of heating up our homes partly using the wasteful traditional bulbs by electric power, the heat we are losing from switching to CFL lighting will mostly be supplemented by natural gas heating and is thus actually going to SAVE us money in the winter. In the summer, the benefit is even greater because adopting CFL’s can cut down heat dissipation by as much as 75% from our light bulbs and thus may significantly lower our heating bills in air conditioned homes. CFL (3rd or 4th generation like what Ken indicated) is therefore a godsend to help save the environment, as far as I can see.

    Therefore, when God said, “Let there be light!” I think he was probably hinting us to switch to using CFL’s (another lame joke of mine!)

  16. If we are so worried about Greenhouse gas, why isn’t there a serious plan to shut down Nanticoke?

    How much power does a lightbulb use? 60W. Your computer uses 450W, central A/C 3000W, cloth dryer 5000W, why aren’t we doing anything to energy hungry applicances instead of light bulbs?

    If anything “bad" should be banned, what about junk food, smoking, one night stand, and government bullshit?

    This is just nonsense.

  17. Thanks, Freddy, your remarks echoed the ones from another audience who called in that day. These arguments actually crossed my mind too but I’ll come back tomorrow night to try to address these and more questions for which I tend to have answers.

    Until then, please tune in to AM770 and 1540 (and don’t move the dial any further to the left after this) to listen to their fabulous programming today and tomorrow…guess I am beginning to sound like a salesman of this station now…


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